Beverly's and Chris's Slab Door Layout

Dinner and a model supply run, sounds like a perfect evening!

Sorry Bev, highjacking your thread again.

tealplanes wrote:

Beverly56 wrote:
This got me thinking that Sculptamold must have dry plaster mixed in it. And the more I think about the recent discussion about subroadbeds and the use of wood, the more I believe that Sculptamold is not totally a wood/paper-based product.


Bev,

The package of Sculptamold says it is like paper mache in that the cellulose material won't shrink. I don't think there is any plaster in it at all. Could be wrong, but I couldn't see any ingredients marked on the package.

My 3# bag cost less than $7.00. Great stuff.
Loren

Loren,

There are no ingredients listed on CelluClay, either. But think about it. If wood expands when wet, and every peice of wood I've ever worked with does, it will shrink during the drying process. Cellulose is a wood product, so it would behave the same as wood. There must be other ingredients besides cellulose in Scultpamold to keep it from shrinking while it dries. For that matter, there may be other ingredients in CelluClay, too, though whatever else is in CelluClay must not be retarding shrinkage or may even increase shrinkage.




Here is my second attempt using CelluClay, shown in an early poste, after drying and installing a few Heki trees (that have not yet been re-coloured).



My third attempt using CelluClay is on the left. My main goal with this experiment was to see if I could create a mix of CelluClay and drywall mud that wouldn't shrink while drying as well as be of a consistency that would allow me to create cobblestones. The insulation foam was given "tooth" by abrading it with my Henkel paring knife so the CelluClay would adhere better. The CelluClay was first flattened by hand using a similar method one uses to flatten pizza dough. Once the CelluClay was relatively flat, it was pressed onto the foam with my fingers. A piece of aluminum foil was placed over the clay and a small paint roller was used as a rolling pin. The the foil was repositioned several times and the paint roller was rolled in all directions to make it uniformly flat. It's important to note that the CelluClay was not at all sticky in consistency to allow this type of flattening. The tools used to create the cobblestones were a blade from a utility knife and a razor blade. I will use the trimmed razor blade in my next attempt at making cobblestones to make the road narrower and closer to scale. All tools are shown in the photo above.




Here we see a close up of my first attempt at cobblestones. Obviously, they are too large and too deep. I also want to be able to make curved roads, but have not come up with a tool that will help me do the job. Whatever tool I use must be as sharp as both the razor and the utility knife blades, but must be very flexible.





Mike,

Thanks for posting the link I'm going to check the place out for a flexible blade to make cobblestones.



Jim,

Have a wonderful meal in Little Italy And may you find what you're looking for at the art shop

A couple of ideas for creating cobblestones

Use a sheet of plastruct and scribe the lines for cobble stones on the plastic. There is also a scribing tool that creates a small trench in the plastic to create scribed siding. Could be a bit tedious as most places I have seen cobble stones they are offset like brick in a wall not done in even rows in both directions.

With your cellulose you might try rolling nylon screening into the top surface and removing it after drying partially. Wire screening is a weave and not suitable while the nylon stuff is flat and even textured.

cheerz Garth

Garth,

Thanks for the nylon screen tip I actually have some on hand and just gave it a quick test. The results are even more uniform blocks than the blade method, but it's hard to get the depth even throughout a long stretch of road. However, it's a promising idea and one that I'll work with more to see what I can get out of it. Also, there is no need to wait for the CelluClay to dry. Just press in the screen and the imprint is made.

Cobblestones come in all sorts of alignments and shapes. Here's my limited research on the topic:

A German HO(?) page with landscaping and cobblestones.

Z-fm's etched cardboard cobblestone product.

Noch's Z cobblestones.

A German eBay listing for paper cobblestones.

MBZ paper cobblestones.

Another MBZ paper cobblestones.

Sculptamold must contain some amount of gypsum-like material. It can get slightly warm as it starts to cure. To my knowledge, papier-mâché alone does not produce such an exothermic reaction.

Sculptamold is available through the following online vendors:

Amazon.com ($7.49)

www.amazon.com/Sculptamold-Modeling-Compound-3-Pounds/dp/B0001DUACE

Dick Blick Art Materials ($6.20)

www.dickblick.com/products/amaco-sculptamold/?wmcp=google&wmcid=products&wmckw=33104-1003-2034

Hobby Warehouse ($5.70)

www.hobbywarehouse.com/Products/All-Scales/SC3-SCULPTAMOLD-3-LB?cvsfa=1414&cvsfe=2&cvsfhu=4141433431383231432d4750

and about 120 more: www.google.com/products?q=Sculptamold

David,

Thanks for the links



Amaco is the manufacturer of Scultamold. Product information can be found on this PDF page and their webpage . It's interesting to note that Scultamold is compared to papier mache in that it's both "like" and "unlike" papier mache. States it does not shrink and that it sets in 30 minutes.

Activa is the manufacturer of Celluclay. Product information can be found on this webpage . It's made of recycled paper and can be stored. There is no mention of not shrinking (which we already know about).

I've got a boatload of CelluClay as well as 1/4 box of ready-to-use drywall mud. My track and locomotives aren't here yet and I have plenty of time to tinker with things, so tinker I will


Garth,

Hah! I also found some metal window screen I think we have half of the hardware store at our house I'm side-by-side testing both nylon and metal screens and will post photos when the tests have dried. The metal screen is surprisingly nice stuff to work with, but we shall compare the results after they both get a wash of paint.

Beverly56 wrote:

Quote...... "States it does not shrink and that it sets in 30 minutes."

Uh, that's not necessarily true. It won't shrink from what I can tell, and while it does set in 30 minutes or less depending on the amount of water, it does not dry "plaster hard" It also takes hours if not days to dry thoroughly depending again upon the water content.

Loren

Hello Beverly,

Beverly56 wrote:

Cobblestones come in all sorts of alignments and shapes. Here's my limited research on the topic:

A German HO(?) page with landscaping and cobblestones.

The link you found is for a N scale website. In it is a further link for some hints about detailwork . Just scroll down past the turn outs.

The Moltofill is like cast. The author uses a small tool that he made with a ballformed milling cutter. Using a tube would pick out some of the cast instead of forming the surface. The cast is almost dry when using the tool.

Another option could be absorbent gauze from your medicine cabinet. This can be stretched unevenly to get a more scattered look for the cobblestones.

tealplanes wrote:

Beverly56 wrote:
Quote...... "States it does not shrink and that it sets in 30 minutes."

Uh, that's not necessarily true. It won't shrink from what I can tell, and while it does set in 30 minutes or less depending on the amount of water, it does not dry "plaster hard" It also takes hours if not days to dry thoroughly depending again upon the water content.

What the manufacturer does not detail is the difference between setting and curing. It will indeed set (acquire a firm state that will no longer flow) in 30 minutes. Once set, curing can take days depending on thickness.

That said, setting can be affected by how much it's manipulated; I've found that the longer the Sculptamold is actively shaped, the longer it takes to set--which makes sense. I've also noticed that it can be over-manipulated--that is, the plaster-like stiffness that starts to set in can be destroyed, and when this happens, it acquires an entirely different texture. It will still set and cure, but it's not as hard.

When it's cured, assuming it was not over-manipulated, it is really quite hard; I would not disagree with the term "plaster hard." Plaster of Paris, after all, is fairly soft--you can gouge it with your fingernail. If anything, Sculptamold is certainly far more resilient than plaster owing to the cellulose fibers. Unlike plaster, you can drill and saw it without splitting it apart.

My suspicion is that Sculptamold is a papier-mâché/plaster of Paris hybrid. This would explain the large difference between the time to set and the time to cure; it would also explain the exothermic reaction that it exhibits while setting.

Uwe,

Thanks for finding the "Tips" page That the site is in N scale makes me more hopeful that random cobblestones might be possible in Z. It looks like an awful lot of tedius work, though



David and Loren,

I'm glad we got to the bottom of the ingredients in both Sculptamold and CelluClay. Great discussion and sleuthing





My two tests of the metal and nylon screens now have washes of paint on them, though the CelluClay mixture has dried on the surface only. After the sun comes up, photos will be posted.

It's been a busy day. Here are photos of the nylon and metal window screens used to make cobblestones....

Nylon screen makes very even cobblestones...


Surprisingly, the metal screen looks pretty good. I think I may like this one better because the cobblestones look a little more random....



Thought I'd do a small diorama to test another mixture of CelluClay and drywall mud. Before adding the mud, I abraded the foam surfaces with a Henkel paring knife to give it "tooth". All burrs were rubbed off the foam so they wouldn't become a liability while sculpting. It's important to note that while abrading the foam, a vacuum cleaner was used regularly to remove the cast off foam.


Using a tablespoon, I smeared onto the CelluClay onto the foam base, making sure it was firmly pressed into the abraded foam and cavities where foam pieces did not join properly. At lunchtime, I carefully draped a wet towel over the sculpture to keep it moist for working on later in the day.


On top of the wet towel, plastic was wrapped around the diorama to keep everything as moist as possible in my absence. I made sure the towel did not come into contact with the wood base to help us determine if the drying CelluClay would warp the base.




I'll post photos later of the tools used to sculpt the CelluClay as well as a photo of the sculpted diorama.

I'm wonder, of the two screens, which looks best? The nylon or the metal screen or neither, and why or why not? TIA

On the nylon versus metal screen question, I would lean toward the metal screen if only because it is more random but I do think that some of the "stones" created by the metal screen technique are a much smaller than others and I would think the workers would have been more careful to match them up better when they were laid. Maybe you can inspect the screening material before use to adjust the metal strands for more consistency and yet it would still be more random than the nylon screening. Just a thought

Beverly56 wrote:

Uwe,


David and Loren,

I'm glad we got to the bottom of the ingredients in both Sculptamold and CelluClay. Great discussion and sleuthing


Bev,
I'll bet if you twist Dave's arm he can tell you all about the 'old' days of plaster of Paris or equivalent when the finished layout weighed more than a sumo wrestler:laugh:

Back then, that was all there was as far as I know.....but knowing how resourceful Dave is I imagine he had several techniques under development while most other modelers were getting 'plastered'

Loren,

Getting "plastered" aside , what do you think of the window screen cobblestones?

Here is the first glimpse of the test diorama that was created yesterday. It is still in the drying stages. The darker areas indicate where the CelluClay is still moist on the outside. The groove down the centre of the mountain will become a test place for a waterfall...




Things I learned while making this mountain:

- abrading the foam surface and removing all foam burrs by rubbing them off helps the CelluClay to stick to the foam better than it would stick to unabraded foam. Also, you don't want foam burrs becoming part of your sculpture.

- using an ordinary tablespoon to pack the CelluClay mixture firmly against the foam surface is important to reducing shrinkage and (very) slight slumping by removing small air pockets within the CelluClay mixture.

- after applying the CelluClay mixture with a spoon, packing it further into the abraded foam with crumpled aluminum foil firms up the CelluClay even more. Make sure to keep an eye out for bits of foil coming off and sticking in the CelluClay.

- keep sculpting tools clean and dry during the sculpting process.

- the more evenly the CelluClay mixture is applied to the foam, the more evenly it will dry.

- let the CelluClay mixture dry before altering the shape of the mountain (or whatever) before applying additional CelluClay mixture. Adding additional CelluClay when the original CelluClay is partially set causes some buckling of the partially dry CelluClay.

Beverly56 wrote:

Loren,

Getting "plastered" aside , what do you think of the window screen cobblestones?

Bev,
Now that I'm unplastered....I think those stones look pretty good. They look to be laid out pretty evenly and I'm curious how you got the surface smooth before adding the screen or did you press the screen into the celuclay with a rolllng pin.....you know, the kind you use on your husband's head when he comes home from the bar with pink on his shirt collar:laugh:

I was just wondering how it would look if you somehow put some sort of grout between the stones to look like mortar? Maybe cobblestones didn't have mortar? There is one street here in Medford that has that basic look. I'll have to photograph it and post the picture. I know one thing, the surface sure isn't smooth like fresh asphalt.


Regarding the lost travelers on your mountain diorama test board.....I sure hope they get home before the next blizzard hits. Those folks on the US East coast are getting blasted.

Loren

Bev,
Just had a thought, if you will send me your mailing address, I'll send you a sample pack of Sculptamold for you to try some tests on. I'd like to see how you stack them up side by side in tests. How much do you need for a test?

Sound good? That will be my valentine's gift to you. And yes, Karin knows I'm making this offer. She gets the candy, roses, flowers, or in her words......."more Z scale"
Loren

tealplanes wrote:

They look to be laid out pretty evenly and I'm curious how you got the surface smooth before adding the screen or did you press the screen into the celuclay with a rolllng pin.....

Loren,

I don't actually have a rolling pin Instead, I used an unopened tube of silicone caulk to get the CelluClay surface smooth before laying the screen on and rolling over it again. I tried to replicate the experiment today with a larger surface of CelluClay, but it didn't work. I think the problems were multifold - 1, the clay was too wet and wouldn't hold the impression the way the first test did; 2, the larger piece of screen was so flexible it wouldn't stay in one place during the rolling process; and 3, my "rolling pin" wasn't as wide as the test area so there were impressions of the edges of the rolling pin along the edges of the test area.

I had another idea about making individual stones using the open end of a cheap Papermate pen ink holding cylinder (don't know the real name for that thing is ) and pushing it ever so slightly into the CelluClay over and over. Again, I think the clay was too wet and the results weren't satisfactory. Also, this method would drive me out of my mind to do on a layout as large as we have planned.

Then I had another idea after that. It's not one I can test without buying new materials and tools. This idea is to make my own "stamp" inspired by lino printing. Using very fine gouges, either for wood or lino printing, I could in theory, gouge out individual cobblestones from a piece of lino to form a stamp. This would also be a tedious process, but once I made a few simple stamps, I could reuse them throughout the layout. That is, of course, dependent on whether or not I could gouge the lino repeadly in a relatively uniform manner. After researching the idea this afternoon, I'd have to buy a $35 1.5 mm U gouge and some relatively inexpensive lino, just to see if it would work. I suppose I could go to the garage and see what kind of larger gouges might be hidden away and test my gouging abilities in soft wood. Hmm. Not a bad idea


tealplanes wrote:

Just had a thought, if you will send me your mailing address, I'll send you a sample pack of Sculptamold for you to try some tests on. I'd like to see how you stack them up side by side in tests.

Thank you for the offer of sending me a sample of Scultamold to test I haven't exhausted testing of the materials I have on hand yet, but if I do, I'll send you my mailing address ASAP.

I completed another mountain this afternoon that is still drying. It's actually the first test mountain that was only partially covered. The photo of it is a few posts before this one. I'm looking for cracks in the two mountains, and so far, there aren't any that are noticecable unless you look really closely for them. Of course, the two mountains are not fully dry, so more cracks might appear in the next day or so. Chris said the other night that we know what to do with cracks - we fill them! And that got me thinking that even if small cracks do appear, it won't take much to fill them in as long as I have some of the original material kept moist.

That brings me to another topic which is I've been able to make a batch of CelluClay and drywall mud mixture and store it wrapped in a wet cloth in a plastic container for 36 hours so far, and it's completely pliable and workable. This is important because I add colour to the mixture in the form of brown latex paint, but with no really strict recipe from batch to batch. For patching, it would be great to use the same colour as the original. I know you must be thinking I'm crazy to be going through all this trouble, but for me it's great to develop and hone my mountain and rock skills while testing the CelluClay.



Tomorrow, I'm hoping the two mountains are dry so I can take a good look at them for cracks and take photos of them. Where cracked, I can fill them to see how that works. I'd also like to take another run at making more cobblestones with the two screens.

Bev,
Been doing some thinking about your cobblestone technique and I honestly haven't thought up any better way than what you are attempting.

How wide of an area do you need to make? Being that Z is so small I'd think that any strip of cobblestone several inches wide would translate into more than enough to make any street, or city square scene.

Once your cobble stone has dried adequately I imagine you can carefully cut it into strips or even curved sections and then cover the edges with sidewalk, or curb material, shrubs, etc. Of course it may be too brittle to cut decently and in that case you may have to sand the edge into the contour you want. I have a table version of a belt sander that has a nice curve and that I use to make contours in different mediums. Even the Dremel tool has a mandrel that you can put an abrasive wheel onto and grind your contours. Fun, but messy......better do it outside.

This sounds like it will be an interesting challenge and I'm confident your end result will look very good. Of course, getting it to that stage may drive you totally insane and you may be past retirement by the time you finish. We'll just wait and see:)

Loren