electrical troubles

im having a small problem with my off n on,, power to track switches. i first connected LEDS 5mm to them, but the resister slowed the trains down,, then i tryed a 6.5 normal bulb,, it still take vital current away from the tracks, moving the voltage to 7.2 dc. im very confused on this. i have the ken stapleton switch units, that light up as their switched,, they run smoothly,, but i want a green light to come on when that area of track is running. theres 11 different switches that need to light up, just in phase 1 n 2 alone,, i just cant get what im doing wrong. i want the full 9 volts in the track, not being hampered by the lights. its probably an easy fix,, but i ve forgotten more about trains than remembered, running them since i was 3. any ideas??? merry xmas all! canada mike

Hi Mike and a joyous Christmas and a happy, safe and healthy New Year to you!

How much track have you got? How many locos do you run at any one time? How many power packs are you running all this off?

Disconnect everything, then start to re-connect the wires one by one. First for the trains, then the other stuff. Check everything, and write down the results after each re-connecting.

Lajos

If you can sketch out how you are connecting things, that would be most helpful. It sounds as though the LEDs and resistors are being integrated into the circuit improperly, but it's hard to tell based on a verbal description.

It reads like the LED's or light bulbs are in series with the frog power, indicating which track has power. If the LED or bulb are in series with a motor, there will be significant loss. Normally, the LED/light bulbs are placed on a secondary circuit, seperate from the track power. No other way to do it.

LED's, even without resistors, will drop ~1.5V, depending on color and motor load current. But you need a resistor to protect the LED so the voltage loss will be severe. The light bulb will be similar. I am not sure what a 6.5 is but assume it is smaller 'signal' bulb. This will easily light under motor load and loose I assume 6.5V.

Jeff
SF Bay Area Z

liltoot wrote:

im having a small problem with my off n on,, power to track switches. i first connected LEDS 5mm to them, but the resister slowed the trains down,, then i tryed a 6.5 normal bulb,, it still take vital current away from the tracks, moving the voltage to 7.2 dc. im very confused on this. i have the ken stapleton switch units, that light up as their switched,, they run smoothly,, but i want a green light to come on when that area of track is running. theres 11 different switches that need to light up, just in phase 1 n 2 alone,, i just cant get what im doing wrong. i want the full 9 volts in the track, not being hampered by the lights. its probably an easy fix,, but i ve forgotten more about trains than remembered, running them since i was 3. any ideas??? merry xmas all! canada mike

There are two ways to do this and trying to run the indicator power from the track voltage is not one of them. If you can find 3 pole 2 or 3 position switches then you control the track power with 2 poles and the 3rd is used to control your block lights from a different power source than the track.

Using the typical 2 pole switch 2 or 3 position switch you need to use a relay in conjunction with your block switch and again you indicators and relays are to be powered from a different power supply of fixed voltage output.

Use a separate 12vdc supply to control these relays and lights with about a 5 amp rating. The switch controls the coil on the relay and in the off position there is no power to the track. The ON position puts power to the track. Your relay it needs to have 3 poles minimum. The power to the track is connected to two sets of contacts connecting a NO (normally open pair) between the power source and each side of your track. The Coil of your relay is connected through your switch NO contact pair to your control power source. One side of the coil goes to neg bus rail and the other side goes to a set of NO contacts on the switch and then to the positive side of the control power supply. You indicator light LED or incandescent is then connected through another set of NO contacts on the relay. One side of the NO contact pair goes to the plus side of you control voltage and the other side goes to one side of your light or the anode of an LED. The other side of the light goes to your negative side of your control power supply. The other side of the LED goes to your ballast resistor and the the negative side of your control power supply.

If you have two power cabs then your block switch needs to be center off type and up takes power from Cab A to the track with one indicator lamp and relay and down takes power to the track from cab B to the track with another indicator lamp and relay.

You can not run block indicator lamps off of the track voltage. Our Z-scale power supplies are just not set up for this. If you are really into electronics and can breadboard your control circuitry and you are using LEDs then the whole thing can be built using a 5vdc switching power supply with small solid state relays and LEDs with low current consumption.

garthah wrote:

You can not run block indicator lamps off of the track voltage. Our Z-scale power supplies are just not set up for this. If you are really into electronics and can breadboard your control circuitry and you are using LEDs then the whole thing can be built using a 5vdc switching power supply with small solid state relays and LEDs with low current consumption.

This is it exactly (actually, it's pretty much the same in any scale). Motors + LEDs + resistors = problems; motors + traditional lightbulbs = impossible problems. The issue has to do with where the current goes in a circuit having a motor in series with another load, such as a lamp or resistor; it's not where you want it to go. The problem is that the motor is not a constant load; it varies considerably as the supply voltage or its RPM varies.

Always best to keep motors and indicators as completely separate circuits. This allows the motor to behave normally, and protects the indicators from variations in current (motors can generate some nasty spikes that kill LEDs). Surplus electronics supplies often have 3PDT and 4PDT miniature panel toggles, which would be the most straightforward solution, eliminating the need for relays.

i ve got enough track to go from my place to yours,, right now about 1 1/3 miles laid. most runs in the 12 line spurline, and a 16 track hidden loop. then i have 4 sepatate track lines, and 2 turntables with an 18 n 21 rounhouse setup. this is phaze 1 n 2,, i got 12 more phazes to go. so far i can run 8 trains at once,, as soon as the cantenary,,,got enough to go from calgary to spokane,,, then i can double that if i wanted to. i want atleast 12 trains running in each phase at a time. my computer will watch their speeds and crash problems for me when completed. i m trying to build canadas largest home layout, with 3 layers of excitement. then an ho marklin will run across the roof top, with a guage 1,,just to finish things off.already cut out the lexan curves for that.

i understand now what im doing wrong, had to go see a ho scale buddy, and he had to reread me the electronics riot act again, word for word. that really helped. you need to run a completely second line system,, this i get fully now. if i wasn t working with leds, and only had bulbs, it would of kicked in,, thankyou all for your help. canada mike