Who is interested in...?

Socalz44 wrote:

Sad to see anyone sit this out. This is my idea of scratch built. Yours may be different. Thats the beauty of this whole thing. Maybe I should just make it wood only? That may help the lawyers in the group come to a decision. Cheers, Jim CCRR:unsure:

When you defined the subject as wood only, I was still safe with my proposed entry.

But Jim, in looking real close at your picture.........don't I see a couple of Lowes 3" all brass deck screws holding that rickety old shed together? That would be cheating you know...

BTW Jim, I really like your shed.......even if it is a little drafty and won't hold heat during the winter. Nice job on the weathering. How'd you do it?

Another note.....has anyone seen or heard of Kelly? He disappeared off the radar and I'm hoping he is alright. Anyone know?

Loren, Ha! On the snowshed now I have put in 'nails/spikes'. Did it yesterday. I used a sharp pencil. Trouble is making them so small they can't be seen. A good pencil dot is almost a Z scale foot! Oh, and I have set no rules as of yet for the contest, if we have one. I'm leaning towards allowing some pre made things like window frames. Cheers, Jim CCRR:)

You know Jim, even if there is no contest, the attention given to this subject may be enough to cause some to do some modeling.

I had two projects planned, so contest or no, I'm getting my feet wet.....

Loren, I know that's true. I have tried to build my own buildings out of LHS wood and I find it very frustrating. The snow shed is just putting sticks together, but I like the result, it fits right in Northern Division terrain. Also, in the photo is another project. The water tower has not been 'planted' and is a good scratch project. I still would like to hear, who's in, and when. Cheers, Jim CCRR:)

I think it is the "purpose" that is missing in those... hum? Are they called contests?
And by saying this, I don't want to be mean in my judgment, far from it.

I think, there should be something to aim for. Yes, self achievement is a good thing (as would say Martha Steward), but after certain period of time, you need something to push people out of their seat if you want more participants. Hell! I would even go for a paper clip stick into a wooden base as a trophy for third place, LOL!
By this, I mean, just look were the weathering challenge went! (Was a great idea, but any ideas for recognition prices were being scrap from the start, so this was a great effort for the community, but from what it has resulted, not enough motivation to bring people to participate more).

Here's what other forums does; They mostly do the same basic thing for contests, and it works like hell, it brings a lot of participants. I've never won anything yet, but I'll continue to participates as long as there is a point or an objectives to it, this is human nature me think.

1.They ask for an entry fee: usually $5.00 per entries, paid by Paypal or check. Never saw any people complaining about this yet.
2.They put the rules in writing on a different page link so does the participants with their photo's with text beside it,so people can go and read it from time to time.
3.They Ask for members of the forums that are small manufacturers for first, second and third prices give away.
4.They also gives away plaques to the winners (Thus the contest fees for the cost of the plaques and shipping cost)
5. And so on....So let's have a real contest, ho yes! For sure the first one will have defective ruling, complaint & injustice and all, but that's the fun of it, because the second contest will have better ruling and so on. That's the way it usually goes on modeling contests, but don't take my word for it, people can go look around and bring some ideas from it.

Ben

tealplanes wrote:

Another note.....has anyone seen or heard of Kelly? He disappeared off the radar and I'm hoping he is alright. Anyone know?

He´s with the Army now, so he has just limited time for our hobby. Last week before Altenbeken, we had a session at the US Z Lines (together withe our guests from the US) and I made this picture of his work.
Mattias

Jim to answer your question I'm interested.

Your snowshed looks correct for your layout - nice job.

I thought I saw a mention of Kelley being back in California for training.

Jerry

First, Jim, the snow shed is far the best model you've ever built. Keep it on.
Second, Some rules and categories need to be created, but common sense should dictate. Manufactured components shouldn't be excluded if they're not exeeding - a guess - 25% of components and / or proportions of the model. The focus need to be on the model and only on the model, so no staged diorama photos should be allowed. To judge the quality of a model more than one photo needed, but how many maximum? There should be a minimum number of contest entries and forum member votes to make winning meaningful. I'm not sure about prizes. If the contest is very serious, recognition is the best possible prize. Brad can chime in, he can add a picture board of winners and winning models to the site.

Lajos:)

Lajos, Thanks for the compliment. As for the contest I have read all the good ideas and have basically arrived at a few conclusions. The contest will be a Scratch Built, not a 'built from scratch'. My bad on that. I was just looking at my shed Sunday and came up with the idea for a contest and because I used simple wood it sounded good to me. So this is were I'm at. Scratch Built will be defined as using no more than 20% pre-built parts. ie. window frames, wire, ladders etc. Track is always ok. Also the use of preformed tubing is ok. That would include something like David's crossing signal. All ok, because the operating light is less that 20% of the whole. If he joins in I would wish he could come up with another model of something. I always intended for the 'scratch built' model to be photographed at least twice and displayed as a stand alone object. It does not have to be presented in the fashion my snowshed is. In fact weathering and accessories should be on the model not spread around on a base to create a scene. How is this so far? More?
Jerry, thank you for your response.
Ben & Lajos et al, These contests are not new here. Just fewer and farther between. While I'm always in favor of prizes and usually give out trees because I know how to make them, I wouldn't mind having any other person or vendor to contribute a prize or two. If I offer 30 Jim Trees then that is a $40 value. Not bad. Best I would like to see the first place winner choose from all offered prizes, then second, and on down the line. We have tried having the contests voted on by all the members back in the early years of ZCS. It never really worked very well. Back then each individual who entered seemed to carry a posse into the contest thus loading the ballot box. We all hope for voting for the best 'object' but it seldom seemed to happen. Then we decided on Moderators voting. With a 1,2,3 vote. This seems to work and no one who lost a Moderator voting decision ever complained. At least publicly. But, maybe times have changed. I'm open to a poll for all to determine a winner and subsequent places. This would open it up to Moderators being able to participate. On the other hand we don't have many Sub-Moderators left. I did not want to make a contest on just building a water tower. I want members to be able to work on their specialties and see how they all stack up. Let me know when you think we should have this, before (troublesome), or after the Z Convention in Medford. Lastly I have been a staunch supporter for no extra rewards for these contests over on Trainboard. ei. winning once is the same as winning 5 times. (No extra credit) Some people wanted stars, dots, seargent stripes for multible wins. I won most of the contests an was the biggest opponent of these types of things. So while not impossible here, you will probably get no love from me. Cheers, Jim CCRR:)

Okay time to throw my 2 cents in. I read the post and Tim's comments in the Shout box. Contests can be a lot of fun and a great way to build the forum and the community. But you have to be very clear on the rules, what is eligible, the deadline, judging rules, etc. I have run contests in the past with Ztrack, and the results were phenomenal. I am long over due for another one. But here are just some thought:

For every tier of complexity, you will loose those who can participate. If you only run 'fine scale' contest or for those with the highest level of skills, the participation will be low. Mix it up a bit. Maybe after the scratch built contest, go with a layout photo, contest. I like challenging folks like the car weathering contest, but by defining the exact car to use, you limited participation. Try to keep part of the contest broad to encourage participation.

Definitely set up polls to let those on this forum judge. You will get a broader sampling of votes and remove any sense of favoritism that can happen from a select few judging. In my photo contests, I even used non-model railroad folks to judge. Why? Because they could see more objectively then us model train folks who have an eye for these things.

Prizes. Why not? I was shot down when I offered before, but I will offer again. I think it is fun to offer prizes. For instance, start a contest for best laser cut wood kit build. Reach out to Stonebridge Designs, GC Laser, or RS Laser to offer the prize. Give these great manufacturers a nod. It is mutual support of hobby and manufacturers.

Most importantly, don't get wrapped up in too many rules and over complicating things. A draconian approach will turn folks away. Keep it fun, simple and positive. Hey the goal here is to share and build relations while just plain enjoying the hobby.

Okay my 2 cents.

Rob

Here's some examples of what is on the web right now
www.starshipmodeler.com/contest/contest.htm
This one above had separated in 3 groups the contest

1.Kits
2.Scratchbuilt and Kitbashed
3.Diorama

The names of each entrant are blocked, until the end of the contest,
to eliminate favoritism.

Site administrated by one person only and 2 or 3 admins.

There is also this one here
www.wingsofpeace.net/contest/contest.html

Hope it gives more ideas on how to do things

Ben

ztrack wrote:

I like challenging folks like the car weathering contest, but by defining the exact car to use, you limited participation.

Rob

Rob, you hit the nail on the head as far as my sentiments go for model contests.... I to like the weather cars, but skipped the last contest due to the rules being to focused and the requierement of a specific car.... frankly i didn't like the car picked, and didn't want to spend money to buy a car i didn't want for my collection.... so i saw the contest as a waste of time...

Now, had they opened the contest up, and allowed a better selection of cars i would most likely jumped in. Why could it not have been a "box car"..... any box car.... any road... any era...whats the difference

My point is... was the contest about "weathering" or was it about "who can weather this exact car the best".... two different contest IMHO...

Tony B....

Don't count on me, I have it hard enough making something in gauge 1...

I have been scratchbuilding for over 50 years,I think you guys have been sniffing to much CA.

If this thing ever gets rolling, I've got a project in mind. Not enough time to build it before the convention (not going as of this point). Hey, probably not enough time to build it for the contest. I'm still finishing up my PBL diorama. But I'm ready to go!

How many moderators are there? I think in the past, we've done it with the people's choice counting as 1 mod vote.

Regards,
Jeremy

Jeremy, The contest will be in May after the convention. Get to work. I liked the member's votes counting as one vote. This time there will be a vote my all who wish to vote, this way moderators can enter. PBL can wait, start on this project. Cheers, Jim CCRR:)

I'm already starting on the raw materials.

Jeremy