PCC Bus

HI Everyone, I have another crazy idea in my head, that I want to share with everyone to see if it can be done...
I seen in the chat that that there were these little Z scale power units from Japan, that could be used for scratch building.
Thumbing through a model railroad magazine, I saw these cool old PCC Buses, or streetcars, that were around in the 30s and 40s. They are very art-deco looking and were used in a lot of major cities. I had the pleasure of riding in these buses, in San Francisco, where they have been collected from all over the world and repainted in the colors of their former liveries.
Now,...since some people here on the forum have skills in rapid prototyping, and others have connections in importing stuff from Japan, and others are skilled at painting and decaling, and others are drafters and engineers, and some more can photo- etch and still others can use a laser, I propose that we do a committee type of project, sort of like the one that was done with a steamer a while back.
The PCC buses look simple enough, they could be made with a one or 2 piece shell. I don't know the wheel sizes, or the spacing between the wheels, and would people want a 100 percent accurate model or one that runs well that is 85% correct?
I don't know what the voltage is for the power units, but, could you build capacitors or resisters in the thing, as if it is a hollow shell, there should be room?
Naturally it should be DCC and have proper lighting.
Over head wiring and cantary system? I bet the Japanese ones would be OK.
I am looking at this as a very low cost, and very rapidly produced model that the Z community could put together. Something fun and could be used for those not only modeling the 30s to the 50s, but would look nice in a modern layout in an urban scene.

Kelley wrote:

HI Everyone, I have another crazy idea in my head, that I want to share with everyone to see if it can be done...
I seen in the chat that that there were these little Z scale power units from Japan, that could be used for scratch building.
Thumbing through a model railroad magazine, I saw these cool old PCC Buses, or streetcars, that were around in the 30s and 40s. They are very art-deco looking and were used in a lot of major cities. I had the pleasure of riding in these buses, in San Francisco, where they have been collected from all over the world and repainted in the colors of their former liveries.
Now,...since some people here on the forum have skills in rapid prototyping, and others have connections in importing stuff from Japan, and others are skilled at painting and decaling, and others are drafters and engineers, and some more can photo- etch and still others can use a laser, I propose that we do a committee type of project, sort of like the one that was done with a steamer a while back.
The PCC buses look simple enough, they could be made with a one or 2 piece shell. I don't know the wheel sizes, or the spacing between the wheels, and would people want a 100 percent accurate model or one that runs well that is 85% correct?
I don't know what the voltage is for the power units, but, could you build capacitors or resisters in the thing, as if it is a hollow shell, there should be room?
Naturally it should be DCC and have proper lighting.
Over head wiring and cantary system? I bet the Japanese ones would be OK.
I am looking at this as a very low cost, and very rapidly produced model that the Z community could put together. Something fun and could be used for those not only modeling the 30s to the 50s, but would look nice in a modern layout in an urban scene.

Where have you seen this in Z scale? So far I have only seen these items in N scale.

cheerz
Garth

Sounds like a great idea! I would want one or two.
These trams were exported to the Netherlands as well, from 1949 and lasted till 1993.
Possibilities for all kinds of paintjobs and versions..



check here for pix and info:
nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestand:16-Turfmarkt-1016.1983.jpg
nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestand:HOVMHTM1304.jpg

Matt

PCC cars were used all over the USA and exported to many european cities, in countries as Belgium, Holland, France and Spain. They were also built in licence by (former) communist countries, and many could be found in eastern european cities as well.

Kelley, as far as I can see, the standard gauge would fit fine - most trams in US and European cities use standard. Wike tells me PCC cars were mostly standard gauge, but also in wide and narrow gauge available.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCC_streetcar

Matt

I know SEARAILS was interested in this project a couple of years ago. Maybe if enough of us were interested in these cars, and hounded Jim, he might get it going again. I know Boston operated many of these... Maybe Charlie was stuck on one of these in MTA colors. Even as a static model- it would be interesting in a city scene. Could a Marklin track cleaning car be used for motive power? A thought here-- the tracks were usually built into the roads surface--this can be done easily with evergreen sheets.
Been there- done that.
Fred

I am going to throw this ball into StonySmith's court, as he has been doing fantastic things in 3D and he had the link to the little power units too. I know Bowser makes PCC buses and I am thinking Bachman does also. This would have to be the easiest and least complicated thing in the world to build. I have even found some blueprints for the prototype online with my first Google search.
I am thinking a metal plate that has been milled out or CNC'd that the power units could mount on, or they must be on something that swivels. I say paint the windows on, or use a decal. A Keep IT Simple type model.
And if its too complicated to DCC or change the voltage, just runt the thing on a separate line that is 4 volt or whatever only. IF you run dc only, since it has 2 motors, could you not wire them in series and be safe to run it on a regular transformer??

Kelley wrote:

I am going to throw this ball into StonySmith's court, as he has been doing fantastic things in 3D and he had the link to the little power units too. I know Bowser makes PCC buses and I am thinking Bachman does also. This would have to be the easiest and least complicated thing in the world to build. I have even found some blueprints for the prototype online with my first Google search.
I am thinking a metal plate that has been milled out or CNC'd that the power units could mount on, or they must be on something that swivels. I say paint the windows on, or use a decal. A Keep IT Simple type model.
And if its too complicated to DCC or change the voltage, just runt the thing on a separate line that is 4 volt or whatever only. IF you run dc only, since it has 2 motors, could you not wire them in series and be safe to run it on a regular transformer??

You are mentioning things like Stony Smith's web site and links to power unit but is a bit meaningless without placing links to the pages where we can see this stuff.


cheerz Garth

I have not gotten in touch with him yet to see if he could do it, or would do it, so I cannot plan anything..I will see if I can find the power unit link in chat that, again, was from him..
I don't want to steal anyone's thunder and I don't want to start a big project that would cause somebody else to be committed to finish..I am just at this time kicking around an idea.

This is what I seen and what has me thinking PCC Bus
www.craft-s.com/locomotive/narrow_gauge/hon.html

here is a link to a PCC for those wondering what they are..
www.nrhs.com/natdir/spring01/septa-pcc.jpg

The only small drive mechanics that I know of are the T-gauge ones. They are 3mm, turns out at about 662mm gauge in 1:1. Could be used for some trams I guess. www.tgauge.co.uk/section/2/2/rolling-stock

Kelley wrote:

This is what I seen and what has me thinking PCC Bus
www.craft-s.com/locomotive/narrow_gauge/hon.html

The price on this power unit is about 135.00 US dollars each and the streetcar he offers is about 300.00 with reversing lighting kit,and motor unit and it runs on 4vdc.

This drive won't work to power a PCC street car the way it comes it would have to be modified so it can rotate inside the body of the car at one end. The wheel spacing is a bit long but it would certainly worked for small switcher 2 axle body in Z or a 2 axle street car of which there was quite a few built in the early part of the 20th century in many American and Canadian cities.

www.craft-s.com/locomotive/z_gauge/tram.html this is the link to the street car. They also have a nice controller designed for this unit.

cheerz
Garth

Sorry for throwing you under the PCC bus..

I could do the entire thing in RP parts at Shapeways, but I don't think they'd stand up to the torque.

Torque? What torque? If I look at the price of those Shapeway parts then you don't risk much. And there are smaller motors around than that. Only problem I see are the wheels. I have a lathe but I'm not going to try that. (I even hesitate when I have to turn gauge 1 wheels)

Wooohoo this is what I am talking about..lets brainstorm this thing..should the windows be etched or should we keep this thing simple...any ideas for the traction motors and wheels out there..? I am thinking somthing off the shelf..or modified..but still cheap enough to do.

Start out simple I would say. that's the whole idea behind RP: try out ideas fast (and relatively cheap) before you spend a ton on tooling.

Stony- That looks very interesting. I would get two as static models, if they come to fruition. I understand this is a basic concept. Could the truck side bars be made as part of the model ( to be cut off by modeler ) in the wheel wells? Or as separate unit?
Trying to simplify... This opens up a whole new box of bees... An American light rail and subway system.. For a start they can be stationary models. I'm sure there are tinkerers out there that might motorize them later. On Trainboard a member added sound and all kinds of bells and whistles to his Challenger
Fred

What about making a modern tram shell that could be u sed with the MT GP-9/35 chassis?

I model the current day and would change two of my locos to light rail units in a heartbeat.