Anchoring track to cement bridge sections

I don't know if it is done in real life or not, but I made a low lying bridge from cement slabs. I'm wondering how the railroad would anchor the track to the slabs and if they would ballast it or not.

Like I say, I don't know if it is done in real life or not, but it sure was on my layout....

Any thoughts?
Loren

Hi Loren, Thanks for the picture explaining your concrete bridge!! Anyway, modern railroads are keen on ballasting everything these days. It seems to be cheaper using the ballasting machines full time than turning them off and on. Less crew, less measuring, etc. So, put down some WS Scenic Cement or Elmer's,lay the track and ballast if you want. You can't go wrong. If you are modeling 1930,you are laying track on wood or steel out in the boonies without ballast. In cities before 1960 the tracks were for the most part just lying in grooves in the cement to prevent them from shifting, plus 'screw' spikes at the beginning of each end of the bridge anchoring the track from land. Today the spikes are still there with ballast covering everything up. Standard track is used on concrete and masonry bridges not bridge track. How's zat? Cheers, Jim CCRR:)

If it is cement I don't think they would fasten it to the bridge. You have to think about issues like thermal expansion. Most likely it there would be some setup to keep it in the middle of the bridge, but let it adjust itself in the sense of the track. And some ballast to keep it there.

Havoc, You are correct. I didn't mean every tie. They were use back in the day on the beginning of the bridge and at the other end to anchor the track from the 'mainland'. Does that make sense? On the bridge itself it was grooves and ballast. Cheers, Jim CCRR:)

So, you are demanding a picture huh? Ok, I'll take a picture of the bridge and then we'll finalize the deal.

Later,
Loren

Socalz44 wrote:

Hi Loren, Thanks for the picture explaining your concrete bridge!!

Ok Jim, here is the picture, (that was exhausting)

Now, you guys tell me what to do?

Loren

Loren, They say that everything on a model railroad has a prototype somewhere. In this case I guess I'm wondering whether the track would move side to side as the train went over? Here is what I would do. I would glue two pieces of styrene z scale 8"x8" on either side of the tracks. Painted cement color of course. Leave a bit of space between styrene and track and then ballast over the bridge. The styrene 'cement' strips are to keep the ballast on the bridge and not vibrating off into the water. Make sense? Cheers, Jim CCRR:)

Jim,
Not quite understanding? Add ballast to the entire bridge surface? I understand the styrene bit, but took your wording to mean I should ballast outside the barrier and not the actual ties? The bridge does have a raised edge so the ballast wouldn't shake off the surface.

I'm guessing on the real that they somehow anchored the ties to the cement. Joe mentioned there was an old bridge down in Florida that had the same set up we are talking about. I wonder if they drilled the ties and put bolts or something down into the cement to hold the ties in place and just added ballast for "insurance"?

I need to go looking for some actual photographs of this type set up.

Hey Jim, since you are sitting around not doing anything except bugging Gayle to vacuum your layout room, why don't you go find me some pictures as your Christmas present to me?
Just a thought.....but I don't mean for next year........need it right now:laugh:

Loren

Loren, From your picture I can't see a raised part of the concrete pad. That is why is said to make some. Anyway put the styrene concrete sections on the inside of the two tracks since you say they are on the outside. Ballast, and you should end up with a walk way down the middle of the bridge. Havac doesn't believe they used 'screw spikes' because of expansion. I know they did because they were/are quite common in Europe where he lives. Generally they are probably not used anymore because most concrete bridges have a built in section for the track. No sliding. Cheers, Jim CCRR:)

tealplanes wrote:

Ok Jim, here is the picture, (that was exhausting)
Now, you guys tell me what to do?
Loren

where is the picture?
it's no good in the gallery
put it in the post, so that someone following the discussion will have the clue what you guys are talking about
like so :

Socalz44 wrote:

...Generally they are probably not used anymore because most concrete bridges have a built in section for the track. No sliding. Cheers, Jim CCRR:)

you mean something like this (copied from commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Bridges_in_Germany ):


as opposed to this one:


and finally to end up with US motive (taken from www.flickr.com/photos/true2death/2420696687/ ):

Chris, Good one. That's what I'm talking about. Cheers, Jim CCRR:)

Jim, I am working on editing this message to get the second pic showing what Loren needs
be there in a minute or two

Chris,
Great job. Yes Jim, if you look carefully at my picture you can see the raised edge on the far side. I'll add another raised strip of styrene for a walk way and then ballast the rest.

Sure do appreciate your efforts Chris. You da man.

Much appreciated,
Loren

Building bridges one stone at a time.

Chris,
I notice one drawing seems to have solid concrete cross section while the other indicates ballast?

The picture shows ballast up the outer wall. Walking on gravel......what fun.

Also notice the first image seems to have a smooth walk way on the left side including a raised outer section while the right side has no protected walkway. Prototypical, or just the RR's personal preference?

Great help you are. I'll give you two atta boys for your efforts. Hang on to them......I don't dole them out to just anybody....

Loren

tealplanes wrote:

...I notice one drawing seems to have solid concrete cross section while the other indicates ballast?

that is my understanding as well, although I am not an authority

tealplanes wrote:

...The picture shows ballast up the outer wall. Walking on gravel......what fun...

I believe, one was not supposed to tresspas on the railroad property

tealplanes wrote:

...Also notice the first image seems to have a smooth walk way on the left side including a raised outer section while the right side has no protected walkway. Prototypical, or just the RR's personal preference?

AFAIK, that is a standard practice everywhere - just one walkway, on one side of the bridge (if at all).
Don't forget that pedestrian traffic was/is almost non-existant, and can easily manage with one walkway.
The cost of adding second one is to prohibitive and doesn't make sense.

Chris

ps
just one question - why is this thread in "Z Scale Photography" section, and who was the plonker who started it here

As long as the train stays on the track..at least better than this one.

Chris,
I think I'm the plonker who put the message in the wrong category. Tell me, is a plonker a good thing or a bad thing?

I haven't learned the finer aspects of posting pictures in the right categories or for that matter, doing anything very well in this new site. I would claim being a slow learner, but I used that excuse up two years ago so maybe "dense" is the word I'm looking for. Trees I can make, but this computer stuff leaves me quaking in my socks:unsure:

Anywho, I thank you for your input and now I can go ahead and throw ballast to my heart's content.

Loren

Also notice the first image seems to have a smooth walk way on the left side including a raised outer section while the right side has no protected walkway.

This is the forum acting up with wide pictures. When I look at it in the thread I see an asymetrical bridge with a walkway on the left and not on the right. When I'm in the reply page I see a completely sumetrical bridge with a walkway no both sides. Not that it would make much difference, a single walkway is enough. bridges are expensive.

Walking on gravel......what fun.

Well, if you have to be there then you are at work. No need for it to be fun. In europe it is normal for the walkway to be gravel, a finer sort then ballast however. The pictures show german bridges. The raised part between the rails and the walkway is a channel for cables.

Loren, outside of drainage, either there has to be ballast under the wood ties or in the case of the concrete superstructure, you would be using concrete ties like the pix Jim posted from Flicker (those concrete ties are on ballast as 1] they are prefab sections of track and 2] like the wood ties, need vibration dampening for the cuperstructure).

You could paint the ties concrete and weather the rail. Rust up the rail tie plates a bit more. If you do put ballast, there has to be ballast containment. Put a strip of .040" square stryrene at the edges.

Happy Ho-Ho's

Jeff
SF Bay Area Z