Weathering tools

Here I go with another question. I have been thinking about weathering some of my rolling stock. I went to the LHS here in Hemet and got blank stares from the employees. They sell mainly RC items and Lionel & Aristocraft trains. No HO scale and they had maybe 5 or 6 pieces of N scale. Need it say more.....
I've read the posts in Z Trains but I need to be taken by the hand and lead like a newbeee.
I looked at Micro Mark site trying to learn about air brushes and all the support items I would need. They how to begin and just play on something cheap before I try anything I consider valuable.
What type of brushed to you use, single or double action (?) type of paint and what else I need. This is probably going to be a long learning curve.

Thanks for your input.

Robert

Robert,

I would strongly suggest you buy the Tom Mann book straight away. There is no one better in my view at weathering:

www.lulu.com/product/paperback/weathering/5164387

There are a lot of great tips and advice in this book.

John
www.ztrains.com

loadmaster wrote:

Here I go with another question. I have been thinking about weathering some of my rolling stock. I went to the LHS here in Hemet and got blank stares from the employees. They sell mainly RC items and Lionel & Aristocraft trains. No HO scale and they had maybe 5 or 6 pieces of N scale. Need it say more.....
I've read the posts in Z Trains but I need to be taken by the hand and lead like a newbeee.
I looked at Micro Mark site trying to learn about air brushes and all the support items I would need. They how to begin and just play on something cheap before I try anything I consider valuable.
What type of brushed to you use, single or double action (?) type of paint and what else I need. This is probably going to be a long learning curve.

Thanks for your input.

Robert

Robert, I suggest a single action airbrush for now. Double action airbrush are little harder to use, and as a beginner, you dont need to get over whelm. Of the single action airbrush, I like internal mix airbrush. They seem to give a smoother paint job. Initially, I suggest getting can of compressed air as a propellant. They have low initial cost, but it gets expensive if you airbrush a lot. I still have my first airbrush I bough 27 years ago, and its a badger. I also have a double action airbrush to paint thin lines, but its not necessary for weathering. I use my older airbrush for 95% of my paint and weathering jobs.


John

Another suggestion as far as an air source. I took an old air tank that you us to inflate tires, added a regulator/dryer. It works good and only cost about $25 to convert. When it is empty just run to the service station and for $.50 get filled.

about an air source go to your next DIY market in the garden department. Look out for this (it's not my idea, I got the idea from the ZFE board):

I got one where the connection for the spray hose fits the hose from my airbrush...
It costs about as much as one of those cans with almost a quart of compressed air, and you don't have to drive to the next gas station to fill up your air tank in the middle of a paint session.

Another suggestion, forget the airbrush. Get the basic colors of Bragdon's weathering powder, a few bottles of Polly Scale acrylics for various washes, then go. I won't use airbrush for weathering Z-scale stuff at any price, it's a prescription for "over weathering". Weathering is to follow nature's procedure. Various airborne and other particles sticking to surfaces, then washed down by the rain and melting snow, etc. Check out the real thing, and model it. Nature never used air brushes, and the real stuff still looks nicely weathered. There are lots of politeness even praise about over weathered cars and locomotives, but in my books they're ugly, dirty dogs.

Lajos

zthek wrote:

Another suggestion, forget the airbrush. Get the basic colors of Bragdon's weathering powder, a few bottles of Polly Scale acrylics for various washes, then go. Lajos

Lajos... thank you for this suggestion. Can you provide additional details? I have the Bragdon powders. I understand to use them with alcohol to make it stick. Are you applying the Poly Scale with brushes? When you are finished weathering and have the look you want... Do you seal it with a clear-coat?

Lajos, with all due respect, there are certain weathering effects which happen to occur on all rolling stock, regardless of other effects like rust and dirt, that simply cannot be replicated convincingly with any process other than an airbrush. The principal one is fading from sunlight. The idea is to spray the entire car with a very faint overcoat of a pale color, usually off white, to simulate the effect of fading. One cannot replicate this with powders or washes, no matter how hard you try. Some examples:

Before: lh3.ggpht.com/GFHinshaw/SN90kiLhAMI/AAAAAAAAAhg/F9KrnKd5K48/s800/DSCN7740.JPG

After: lh5.ggpht.com/GFHinshaw/SN90rb2I7HI/AAAAAAAAAhw/1667fDeU5M0/s800/DSCN7746.JPG

I think you will agree that this car is not "over-weathered" one bit. But the effect of a properly-executed fade is unmistakably realistic.

More examples:

Before: lh3.ggpht.com/GFHinshaw/SN99IEt7MKI/AAAAAAAAAio/eA8rgm7Ixmg/s800/DSCN7751.JPG

After: lh4.ggpht.com/GFHinshaw/SN99NLt8R0I/AAAAAAAAAiw/uZsIiIbmpgw/s800/DSCN7756.JPG

And:

Before: lh4.ggpht.com/GFHinshaw/SP696sxrnLI/AAAAAAAAApI/wGRhghryEmw/s800/DSCN7928.JPG

After: lh6.ggpht.com/GFHinshaw/SP6-AUvih6I/AAAAAAAAApY/QlKgJuLp3Yg/s800/DSCN7927.JPG

Before and after: i119.photobucket.com/albums/o153/ednadolski/Picture018a.jpg

Before and after: i119.photobucket.com/albums/o153/ednadolski/Picture021a.jpg

Before and after: i119.photobucket.com/albums/o153/ednadolski/Picture027a.jpg

As for the subject of "overweathering," I think you will find many, many examples in real life that, rendered faithfully on a model, might inspire you to claim it's "overweathered." However, there are many cars in real life that are so weathered that you can barely read the lettering. Like graffiti, it's probably a matter of personal taste. But if you're going to weather your models correctly, working from real life, then you need to take it all the way. Take this car, for instance:

Real life: img.photobucket.com/albums/v303/MrKLUKE/MrKLUKE/52023200820021.jpg

The model: img.photobucket.com/albums/v303/MrKLUKE/MrKLUKE/0146.jpg

More examples, all of them reproducing effects seen on prototype photos:

img.photobucket.com/albums/v303/MrKLUKE/MrKLUKE/0155Q.jpg

i119.photobucket.com/albums/o153/ednadolski/DSC00116-small.jpg

Anyone interested in good weathering techniques would do well to check out Tom Mann's book. Also, you may wish to join one or both of these forums:

modeltrainsweathered.com/

protoweathering.com/SMF

Lajos,
We live in an ugly, dirty world,.......at least up here in the Medford yard.

I used to like spic and span, but now I think weathering and graffiti is beautiful.

It's all in the eye of the beholder.

And Dave, when you get bored and have nothing to do, come on by and 'dirty up' my rolling stock. Dirt is beautiful for me only?

Loren

tealplanes wrote:

Lajos,
We live in an ugly, dirty world...

Truer words have not been spoken.

In the interest of full disclosure, the examples in my post are not my work. And they're also not necessarily the best of the best, either. Actually, if you visit the Model Trains Weathered page (modeltrainsweathered.com/) and just watch the slide show, you'll get an eyefull of some of the best weathering out there. Click on the Gallery button on that page and you can spend another half-hour seeing how some of it's done. Truly masterful work. And all of it's pretty ugly and dirty!

My own weathering work has been fairly modest by comparison. Here's one little example.



This one was an exercise in taking rust to an extreme. It's not based on a prototype, but based on what other equipment I've seen has looked like, and applied it to a brass model to achieve the effect of an ancient derelict.

Proper, realistic weathering can only be done with a combination of brush, powder and airbrush, best reference is Tom Mann's book with some hints in regards to equipment too

Gerd wrote:

Proper, realistic weathering can only be done with a combination of brush, powder and airbrush, best reference is Tom Mann's book with some hints in regards to equipment too

I totally agree. I think each technique complement each other, rather then one technique is better then other. Most of the time, I fade the car with airbrush. Then I add paint wash and foam brush rust. Then its time for a light coat of grime black and rust brown. Finally I use powders to finish the model.

Lots more inspiration to be had online:

www.weatheringfactory.com/

www.weatheringman.com/

theweatheringshop.com/

aggromodelworks.webs.com/

All of these guys specialize in ugly and dirty. Some of it is so well done that it's hard to tell it's a model. This is one of my favorites, from Tom Mann:

There is no argument, the weathered examples are great. The prototypes are a little bit scary, but they're good modeling examples for fans and modelers of the proof of shabby maintenance and nature's power. Weathering is a hobby within a hobby.
But... Just like everything in modeling, weathering methods are scale sensitive. Fading effects can be achieved via various rubbing compounds, make-up products, "milky" dull coats and obviously using airbrush. My problem with weathering via airbrush is the roughness of effects. It's a scale problem, just like old dot matrix and ink jet printers, the dots are too big to achieve desirable quality. In Z-scale it looks OK on some photos taken from distance, but not on close ups. It's like overspray on a bad paint job.
I'm not a hardcore opponent of airbrush weathering, when I see a convincing close up photo of a faded paint effect on a Z-scale car or locomotive done via airbrush, I can change my mind. In the near past I've painted a few hundred brass locomotives, and trust me, I've learned what I'm talking about on the hard way.

Lajos

It is precisely because of the "scaling effect" that airbrushing is preferred for critical finish work. This is especially true for the fade effect, which is probably the most demanding process. The key to success is in the proper thinning of the paint, as much as if not more so than the choice of paint or paints used. When the paint is thinned just right, you're not going to see anything that looks like an ink jet printer.

As for examples done in Z scale, here are a few by Tom Mann, just to reassure that the airbrush is more than capable of getting the job done at 1:220.







And if you need further proof, here is a macro-photo of a faded Z scale hopper. This is about as good as it gets, and I simply cannot imagine doing a fade such as this using any other method. Although, if someone were to post an example comparable to the one below, I could be convinced that an airbrush is optional. Can something like this be accomplished using rubbing compounds, make-up products or such? I'd sure like to know.



Just in case anyone might accuse me of promoting "sophisticated BS," I was the editor on Tom Mann's Weathering book, so I do know just a little bit about the subject. One of the advantages of his book is that he goes into considerable detail on the process of airbrushing, including airbrush maintenance in order to get the best out of the tool.

Incidentally, Tom rarely uses weathering powders. Why? Because he finds that they produce out-of-scale textures. His preference is oil-based artist's paints, thinned with water.

Just in case anyone might accuse me of promoting "sophisticated BS," I was the editor on Tom Mann's Weathering book, so I do know just a little bit about the subject.

No, this is perfectly convincing. After seeing so many really rough airbrush weathering I started to question this technic for Z-scale. I'll play with different weathering technics after the convention, and share my experience.

Lajos