Who is the DCC guru???

most people know me. im canada mike from calgary,, and i m in need of some serous discussion on DCC. if you are interested in teaching , and answering ALOT of stupid questions on this,,, would you email me at www.thegirlingfamily.ca. i want to go full DCC with my z scale,, but have a ton of questions on the subject that no one wants to answer me. i would be deeply appreciated if someone that has an hour or 2 would help me to understand this DCC more, before i go out n spend thousands on junk. thx liltoot

Mike, I am not a guru. In fact, I am far from that, but I am more then willing to share what I know. I bet more qualify gurus like Robert and Jeff are more then willing to answer your questions. Email me if you have questions, and I will try to answer them. Your best bet is to ask Jeff or Robert. They are really good.

Mike, there is a Yahoo Z-scale DCC forum. groups.yahoo.com/group/Z_Scale_DCC/ Sign up, search the threads, I'm sure most of your upcoming questions are already answered.

Lajos

liltoot wrote:

most people know me. im canada mike from calgary,, and i m in need of some serous discussion on DCC. if you are interested in teaching , and answering ALOT of stupid questions on this,,, would you email me at www.thegirlingfamily.ca. i want to go full DCC with my z scale,, but have a ton of questions on the subject that no one wants to answer me. i would be deeply appreciated if someone that has an hour or 2 would help me to understand this DCC more, before i go out n spend thousands on junk. thx liltoot

Hi Mike;

I am in Niagara Falls Canada and have already converted to DCC and having an electronic and electrical background found what I think is the way to get started in DCC. Glad to share what I have found works for me.

cheerz Garth

Here is where I started out. It is cost effective and can be expanded upon.

NCE power cab as the DCC source

MZA4 as the decoder in Micro Trains GP's

NCE - reason could not find a cheaper entry point that did not limit me for growth down the road.

TCS MZA4 decoder - reason it is a true compatible DC/DCC decoder with seamless migration from DC to DCC. You can not run from a DC block to a DCC block on the layout but it does allow you to operate on DC layouts or DCC layouts without fuss. The headlights still work but not the additional functions and 0 to 9vdc and the engine runs just like it did before conversion to DCC. Good customer support so far.

I plan on using the TCS Z2 and M4 decoders in the future to convert other engines to DCC that do not use the MZA4.

cheerz Garth

Mike, I sent you a PM. Also, its hard to e-mail to a website link.
Please call my work number: 408 361 1230 (it will find me most anywhere, if I am not at my desk). This way I can answer all your questions in 10 minutes rather than 10 days of forum posts.

so u can add different brands together, you dont need to stay with one brand? what about wiring your layout, read that you have to add track connecters every 2 feet, all attached to an 18 guage wire,,i ve got a mile laid, i d have to rip most of it apart to do this. guagemaster track cleaners,, can they still be used? i ve laid over 550+ switches,, now i ve read you need an electric dcc unit to make these work? thats alot of switching units i ll need to buy. one book i read says something, you go to another, almost same page,, it s says another,, thats why i9 m so damn confused. i want to start buying the equipment i need,, but i may have to employ a dcc guy to put it all in, the way it going. i d like to do it myself,, but i get so lost on all the technology you need,,hand control,mastercontrol, decoders for engines, switches, even lights!!! where do i begin??!!! canada mike

im going crazyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!

You don't need to operate everything with DCC. Turnouts can be wired on the old fashion way, but probably each turnout requires power routing for DCC. I guess, some sort of planning may helps... Starting with the simple question to yourself: what do I want to achieve?

Lajos:unsure:

liltoot wrote:

so u can add different brands together, you dont need to stay with one brand? what about wiring your layout, read that you have to add track connecters every 2 feet, all attached to an 18 guage wire,,i ve got a mile laid, i d have to rip most of it apart to do this. guagemaster track cleaners,, can they still be used? i ve laid over 550+ switches,, now i ve read you need an electric dcc unit to make these work? thats alot of switching units i ll need to buy. one book i read says something, you go to another, almost same page,, it s says another,, thats why i9 m so damn confused. i want to start buying the equipment i need,, but i may have to employ a dcc guy to put it all in, the way it going. i d like to do it myself,, but i get so lost on all the technology you need,,hand control,mastercontrol, decoders for engines, switches, even lights!!! where do i begin??!!! canada mike

Mike;

You have to realize that most of what has been written in books was for a scale other than Z and most probably HO or O so they have different requirements for power that we do for a Z scale layout. I have a layout that is a J shape and it is 8 feet wide by 16 on one side and 6 feet on the other and the center is open it has double track main line around the whole J and there is a yard that covers 2 x 4 at one end and another at the other end with some sidings along the way and I guess there are about 30 plus switches and I have one feeder going to the whole thing. My switches are operated by hand and they could be push button controlled or they could be DCC controlled but decide where you want to spend your money and just how big is your layout going to be and how many trains are you realistically going to operate or more importantly how many can you operated at one time. I can operate two trains continuously one on each loop and I can leave them run while I switch the yard with what I have and that is more than enough to keep me occupied.

You learn this stuff by dong not reading and you start with your first loop of track with an one engine and some cars and get that going then add a decoder to the engine and trade your power pack in for DCC. You can start for less that 200 dollars or you can start at 600 dollars but regardless you start small. You do not need DCC controlled switches and signals to get started. There is a lot to learn but you learn by taking it in steps one at a time and eventually you can run the marathon but start by crawling then walking then running and eventually you reach the limit of what you want to do and you can have fun along the way.

cheerz Garth

Mike, I have my switches controlled by stationary decoders. The fun part is that can be program together, so one macro can control a series of switches. Its kind of useful in a one man operation.

Mike PLEASE call me at number below. You really are over reading into this. As Garth says, BASIC starter set for <<<<<$200 and 2 wires to the ENTIRE track will run your ENTIRE layout, right now, today.

$150 for DCC Starter sysem
$30 for each locomotive decoder.

Run your trains.

If you want to control turnouts, other that the manual push button or touch the turnout mechanism, then you can buy DCC decoders to actuate them. $25 will drive 2 turnouts or there are large consolidated decoders to drive 8, etc. BUT you don't need them to run your trains for now or even in the future.

Power feeders every 2 feet ??? That sorta applies to just running DC too. Yes, you can power an entire Z scale layout from just 2 wires to then entire layout but, it is best to put distributed feeders every few feet to compensate for potential rail joiner failures. The same as with your present DC based system. But you don't need to do this just to run DCC.

If you are already using Märklin turnouts, you don't need anything special. I haven't run MTL's turnouts on DCC but they should be DCC ready to as they power route within the turnout itself. However, it has been a long standing practice from even before DCC to isolate the tracks between turnouts. This came from DC practices where multiple power packs were used. For DCC it is not mandatory but a good practice as eventually, you may want seperate power districts (but again, NOT needed to get you running).

shamoo737 wrote:

Mike, I have my switches controlled by stationary decoders. The fun part is that can be program together, so one macro can control a series of switches. Its kind of useful in a one man operation.

The "fun" aspect aside, it's a bit overkill (and way expensive) to operate switches with DCC. Where DCC-operated switches make sense is for very large layouts with ops sessions involving multiple operators; it allows the operators to set routes remotely, without having to converge on a central control panel. There's no real advantage to operate switches with DCC on a one-man layout that I can think of; multiple switches can be thrown to set the desired route all at once using a few diodes and a pushbutton, literally for pennies in cost.

caught this terrible cold on thursday,, BUT I WILL PHONE YOU ON MONDAY, ok. so your all telling me that its a good idea to wire a dcc layout with connections every 2 feet or so. and i know all about point isolation and how it has to be done anyways, so i m ok there. its sounds like a lot of equipment tho. you need a decoder in the train, 4-6 or 8, this im confused about. then you need a 21 pin adapter///this im clueless about. then you need switpoint units,,an optional item. whats this dcc accessory decoder about,, is that the switching unit? then sound decoders if you want sound. then finally we get to the wiring, which is a adapter that can go from 1 amp up to 8 amps, depending on what needs and money you wanna spend. then a hand controller to put in the function numbers, to run each train, rerouting with switches, etc. have i forgotten anything?? oooo i did,, remote infrared to non infrared,, with extra towers if needed. am i right so far?? canada mike

oyes one last thing,,,, theres only 32 different makes n models out there to choose from. my question is,, can i buy a decoder from one, adapter from another, train decoding pins from a third,,or do i have to figure out which is best ,options n price wise, and only buy their products??? my last question for today. canada mike

Mike, I think you are thinking way too much. For z, we dont do pins. There are three ways to instal decoders on a z scale engine. First is to solder it to the engine. We do this to F7s, Marklin steamers, and other. The second way is drop in decoders. With drop in decoders all you do is change the pc board. We do this with the GP35 and GP9. We also do it on the SD40, but its not really drop in. Lots of milling is require. The last one is to hard wire it to the pc board. We do this on the AZL SD70 and GP7.

liltoot wrote:

oyes one last thing,,,, theres only 32 different makes n models out there to choose from. my question is,, can i buy a decoder from one, adapter from another, train decoding pins from a third,,or do i have to figure out which is best ,options n price wise, and only buy their products??? my last question for today. canada mike

You are going about this all wrong for Z-scale. The decoder is determined by the engine you are going to use. In most cases you want the drop in version and you might have 2 choices at best. If there is not a drop in then you have a problem as you have to modify the chassis and I am not sure that is something you will be able to do.

Decoders and systems do not need to be from the same manufacturer and in most cases people with multiple engines will have decoders from multiple manufacturers.

For a DCC system we have already pointed you to the one most of are using in Z.

Pins!!!! as I said before you are reading stuff that just does not pertain to DCC for Z. Pins are used in other scales where a engine manufacturer as created an engine with a plug in option. Due to space in a Z-scale engine this is not an option for Z. The most advanced type interface like that in Z is AZL where there light board is already set up to accept a wired decoder and after removing the clips from the light board that make it DC operable you trim the wires to the right length and solder the correct wire to the right place on the board and protect the decoder board from the chassis with tape if not already encapsulated in a plastic sleeve.

For your DCC system you do not need to stay with the same manufacturer for your components with some items but I recommend you do so. The DCC system is the system that puts power to your rails and commands your decoder equipped engines. Decoders are independent of the DCC system and generally work with any system but there are a few quirks out there and sound does confuse the issue if you include it in the mix.

cheerz Garth

well, thank you all for your suggestions, comments, and help. i think my days of dcc are to wait, since i only love the steamers, its been an interesting idea, but the last thing i wanna do is to deform the steamer, to add dcc. I OWN ALMOST EVERY STEAMER MARKLIN EVER PUT OUT! and i'm not a diesel fan at all. but i might try a starter unit on my 12 8851s i have, just fake the cantenary part. thx all canada mike

I talked to Mike today, he's a DCC'r now. The Lenz Silver mini is the smallest, thinnest to put in a steam cab BUT the default Momentum needs to be turned off (CV programmed only). The Digitrax DZ125 is the best over all fit.

Some of the things discussed were:

Turntables with a LOT of legs. Each should be power routed (NOT all on simultaneously as if every decoder turns the light bulbs on, even a 5A system may not start up AND, you should not need a 5A system to run just a few actual locos. But if Mike wants a few locos to always have the lights on, either LED them or keep it to 2 or 3 legs with constant power. LED's of course don't have the high inrush current of a filament light bulb and all tracks could conceivably have power.

Power blocks: Mike has a lot of turnouts, something like 141 so he has wired each leg. Not necessary but good because they can be later broken up into power block using circuit breakers if needed. Since the MTL tunouts power route, there is no need to isolate as Mike did BUT, it is good for troubleshooting or future power districts.

Controlling turnouts. Mike has MTL's electric solenoid versions so he doesn not neet a Tortoise, he just needs a coil drive Accessory decoder like NCE's Switch-Kat.

Get 2 wires to that track and go get 'em.