Who is the DCC guru???

SJ-BAZ-man wrote:

I talked to Mike today, he's a DCC'r now. The Lenz Silver mini is the smallest, thinnest to put in a steam cab BUT the default Momentum needs to be turned off (CV programmed only). The Digitrax DZ125 is the best over all fit.

Have you tried the CT-Elektronik DCX75 ?
www.tran.at/Produkte/DCX75.htm

It is the thinnest I know, and it works wonderfully ...
agp-schwarzwaldbahn.blogspot.com/2009/06/una-menos.html
agp-schwarzwaldbahn.blogspot.com/2009/09/van-dos.html
agp-schwarzwaldbahn.blogspot.com/2009/09/bayerische-blaue-mallet.html

Greetings from Spain

Como estas, AG. Does the DCX75 work any better then the DCX74? I have problems programming the DCX74. If I change one cv, it also changes another cv. For example, if I change the programming on cv5, it also changes my address.

SJ-BAZ-man wrote:

I talked to Mike today, he's a DCC'r now. The Lenz Silver mini snip...........

Some of the things discussed were:

snip .............Turntables

Power blocks: Mike has a lot of turnouts, something like 141 so he has wired each leg. Not necessary but good because they can be later broken up into power block using circuit breakers if needed. Since the MTL tunouts power route, there is no need to isolate as Mike did BUT, it is good for troubleshooting or future power districts.

Controlling turnouts. snip.........

MTL turnouts are not true power routing as the power is only switch on the frog and not on the route as that power is passed with internal wiring around the frog. The turnouts can be altered to true power routing and I have a web page where I show how to do it so your switch for the frog power also switches the route if interested you can see that I did here. < www.nn3.ca/main/main-american-zj-gauge-p5.htm > There also options for only switching the siding while passing the power around the frog continuously on the main. This is essential if you have a single feed to a small layout so there are no blank spots and no shorts with a switch open to a siding. I have 53 switches on my layout and I use several types of power routing mods so I can run two cabs one for each main and one for yard switching stub. In the yard the power routing allows me to park locomotives without power on the siding and on my passenger trains it means the cars are dark and not lit while sitting in the yard as they have interior lighting. One version of the power routing mod allows me to transit between the two mains only when the power is correct on both mains and prevents crossing when polarity is not consistent across the two switches when on DC and to cross with DCC but with no protection for a closed switch. I also use other visual aids to see that the cross over between the two mains are the same polarity and when on DCC it shows both LEDs so I know when DCC is on and not DC in a block.

So my large for Z - 8 x 16 foot layout has only three blocks and three cabs and I can actually hook them all up to one cab for DCC. Then I can do 3 cab DC when I have company to operate or when I want to manually run 2 trains on the main while switching in the yard to break down and rebuild a train for the main. I can also have one cab on DCC while the others stay on DC so lots of versatility and fun options.

This is just one mans answer to simple operating of Z on a layout with minimum wiring and no control panel.

Here is a shot of my yard during construction.

cheerz Garth

Here is the yard photo missed on the previous post

cheerz Garth

shamoo737 wrote:

Como estas, AG. Does the DCX75 work any better then the DCX74? I have problems programming the DCX74. If I change one cv, it also changes another cv. For example, if I change the programming on cv5, it also changes my address.

Hi John,
I have no DCX74, but I have to now 24 decoders DCX75 and none have seen the problem you say the DCX74.

I operate with a digital central Multimaus ROCO.

Greetings from Spain

Thanks AG. I went to your site, I like the look of your layout. How about postig some pictures.

how many locos have you fried from shorting the line? this could get very pricey using older marklin vehicles,, thats what im worried about. plus, im not a diesel fan, im a steam nut, i ve got a collection of steam that will now fit 3 35 foot wals, floor to ceiling, i own every steamer marklin ever made in z, with a few old electrics. these are harder to turn into dcc im told. and i can rebuild ALMOST any marklin train,, but the idea of burning up a few dream steamers i own, scares the ---- out of me. i m very glad tho that i asked about dcc,, i m going to do a small n logging layout with 6 shays i just bought,, im going to try it on there first. if i feel its easy,, i might just try z scale. i think i need to work with it first, before i start spending huge amounts of cash on it. thx all for the great answers!!! canada mike:silly:

It sounds like I could get into this DCC thing with a little help. I don't know that much about it but what would be the easiest way to get started if I have only one set of trains the Marklin 81466 set. Is it possible to get a list of things I would need to buy to get me going. I do love sound but maybe loco control is the way to get started. The power cab and drop in modules would be best if possible and looks like a good place to start. Thanks guys Ron

DCC Moderator here. Sorry, been out a few days.
Garth: thanks for answering and making it clear too.
Ron, you've been answered over on the Yahoo Z DCC forum.

Others: DCC is fairly easy. From the Controlling standpoint, the old DC "Throttle" is called a "Cab" in DCC. NCE's Power Cab or MRC's Prodigy Express are the simplest way to start. The cabs look the same but are in NO way related to each other. I recommend the NCE because that is what most all of us use and talk about on the forums. Your money is one thing, getting support on the forums is another so choose wisely

To set up a system, disconnect the Red and Black (or whatever 2 wires) you have coming from your DC power pack (Märklin, MRC, etc.). Take the DCC starter set out, connect the 3 parts: Cab (the thing you hold in your hand), the Power Supply (wall-wart for the NCE Power Cab system) and, the "interface panel" that connects them together. Next, connect the Track Power terminals on the interface to the track (where you used to have your DC power connected). Polarity doesn't matter in DCC as it is essentially "AC" (alternating current) that is applied to the track.

Essentially, no wiring changes are needed. If you had a lot of track (e.g. parallel mains and/or sidings galore) that had either power routing (off/on, direction, power pack choice), just set them all to "on", it doesn't matter anymore. With DCC, there will ALWAYS be power to the track. You locomotives will be converted to Digital, now only responding to Digital commands sent by Address (each loco gets and address of your choice).

You will need to install a Decoder in each loco. MTL's GPs (35 or 9) use the Digitrax DZ123M0 ( <-- that is a zero): www.digitrax.com/prd_mobdec_dz123m0.php
or, TCS's MZA4: www.tcsdcc.com/Customer_Content/Products/Decoders/Z-Scale/Z%20Series.html

MTL's SD40 must use the TCS MZA4. MTL's older F7's need hacking. See Don Fedjur and others like Glen Chenier to do them for you or, search for the appropriate wording on the internet.

AZL's GP7 and SD70/75 series use the TCS Z2 and must be soldered in but it is
really easy to do, see the TCS website link above for extremely clear pictures on how-to-do.

Märklin's locomotives are not that easy. The 1970's designs were long before. They can be done but it takes work. The steam is a pain. The diesels not so bad but still a lot more work than the modern locos from MTL or AZL.

Is DCC for you ? If you have an 2x3 oval with 1 loco. No. 2 locos, likely No. Have 2 mainlines with crossovers, turnouts and sidings? Yep !! Nothing like running multiple trains on the same track, different directions, different speeds, doing switching operations while the mainline is running (even backing on and off the mainline while switching). Have speed differences between locos ???? Not a problem with DCC !! Just program the CV5 Max to a higher or lower value to tame that Casey Jones.

You've heard about CV (Configuration Variables) that set Speed, Address, Direction, Consisting, Lighting funciotns, etc. DON'T WORRY, the Cabs do all this in English. You go to Program and it asks the questions. But in any case, all you need to run your trains is program the Address. That's it !!! Then you can experiment with the other programming functions. Screw up? You can always reset any decoder! And ANY decoder manufacturer works with ANY DCC system in ANY combination.

Ciao !

Jeff
SF Bay Area Z

Everyone has given great info!
When I buy the NCE Power cab will I still use my Marklin transformer? It sounds like using the Marklin steam loco, I have, would be out due to ac dc etc. unless alot of work is done. I would have to purchase another loco and the decoder to go with the loco. You mention MTL's GPs (35 or 9) use the Digitrax DZ123M0. I guess these are locos I could use with that number decoder to get started. It also sounds like sound for Z is not available unless you use the symphony 77. Thanks for all the great info as being new makes this all sound like Greek. Thanks for the patients!
I checked out some of the links and thats just what I needed. They show easy installs and thats just what I needed to see. They even make sound chips for N. WOW! Now for a good lower priced loco I can ask SANTA for and maybe Power Cab and a module I I'll be started. Suggestions wanted for good inexpensive equipment.
You were getting back to me on the yahoo site but this is the best info you gave me. Thanks Ron

ron222 wrote:

Everyone has given great info!
When I buy the NCE Power cab will I still use my Marklin transformer? It sounds like using the Marklin steam loco, I have, would be out due to ac dc etc. unless alot of work is done. I would have to purchase another loco and the decoder to go with the loco. You mention MTL's GPs (35 or 9) use the Digitrax DZ123M0. I guess these are locos I could use with that number decoder to get started. It also sounds like sound for Z is not available unless you use the symphony 77. Thanks for all the great info as being new makes this all sound like Greek. Thanks for the patients!
I checked out some of the links and thats just what I needed. They show easy installs and thats just what I needed to see. They even make sound chips for N. WOW! Now for a good lower priced loco I can ask SANTA for and maybe Power Cab and a module I I'll be started. Suggestions wanted for good inexpensive equipment.
You were getting back to me on the yahoo site but this is the best info you gave me. Thanks Ron

Hi Ron;

DC and DCC are not compatible and when you saw a Marklin Controller beside a Digitrax controller it was because the AC lighting accessory output from the Marklin controller was being used to power the Digitrax DCC system instead of using a wall transformer or some other device.

Micro Trains makes three diesels that you can get decoders for. They are the GP35 the GP9 and the SD40-2. The easiest to convert to DCC are the GP 35 and the GP 9. I prefer the TCS decoder MZA4 for the install as the digitrax board I installed had to installed upside down and then you had to make program changes to get it to run correctly do able but a pain to do. The TCS (Train Control Systems) MZA4 also allows you to enable the engine so it can be used on either DC or DCC layouts which is a nice feature if you have both or when you go to shows and they only have DC and not DCC to run on the show layout.

When programming the loco there are two addresses you need to program and they are the 2 digit short address and the longer 4 digit address. Many of us use the cab number on the engine we have purchased for this numbers 5015 or 15 and then you have to tel the decoder which number you want to use long or short. This is where the NCE power cab is so nice as it leads you through the process of setting up the decoder. I like to limit the top end voltage to the motor so for running it nevers sees more than 9vdc but not everyone does this. With DCC you can turn the headlights on and off and program various special features. The MZA4 has two additional functions that can be added so you can have a yard beacon on top or ditch lights but those extra features require some work to add to your loco they do not come standard.

There are sound decoders and there are mobile sound decoders. A sound decoder is for sound only and can be placed in a box car behind an engine and the biggest obstacle is getting a big enough speaker into a small Z scale locomotive or auxilary car to make the sound to sound correctly and with enough volume that people can hear it. It can also be put inside a building on the layout or hidden behind some trees as a sound only decoder does not have to be place in a moving train, but it still has to be wired to the track to work. A mobile sound decoder is a decoder that can control the motor and lighting on your engine as well as provide the sound output. While you can find room for the decoder in an engine many times there is no room for a speaker. There are some exceptions such as the Challenger steam locomotive which has a very large tender and at least one person I know has put sound in his.

I have sound in N-scale but not in Z.

cheerz Garth

How is digitrax? Does it work as good as the NCE Power cab unit? Maybe I should work on a small N scale layout to get the feel for sound and motion. Do they have drop ins for the diesels like the Santa Fe phase 1? Sounds like you use Digitrax with TCS decoders and thats OK I Guess they are interchangeable.Would I also need a transformer other than the marklin transformer with the Digitrax or NCE Power Cab? Can I still use the Marklin switch tracks but not the Marklin loco?

Ron

The starter systems come with or are an option to order their power supply. In other words, you need a power supply. The Märklin's Accessory terminals are 1) not enough AC current and 2) too high a voltage.

NCE's Power Cab comes with a small wall-wart (module that plugs on wall) that supplies DC to the Cab. This DC is then converted to DCC within the Cab and sent to the track, all via that Panel (see below manual cover page) www.ncedcc.com/component/virtuemart/?page=shop.browse&category_id=1&vmcchk=1 MRC's Prodody Express is similar. Digitrax Zephyr comes with a laptop style power supply (AC cord on one end).

You can use the Digtrax Zephyr starter set, but it is not a hand-held system:
www.digitrax.com/prd_zep_xtra.php and: www.digitrax.com/ftp/ZephyrXtraQuickstart.pdf If you want a hand-held system, it gets expensive. My main complaint with Digitrax is they use Hex for programming (0-F, 2E, B7) where nearly everyone else uses decimal (0-2048), like NCE, MRC, etc. and no display (LCD) with "English" messaging.

Again, you can mix and match any DCC component (DCC system, decoder, sound decoders, accesories).

N might be best for you if you desire sound in a loco. But before you go down that road, have you been to a local N layout or a traveling show where there was sound in N ? I think you will be disappointed. Both are really sorta too small. Even G scale sounds bad to me. 7-1/2 gauge (the ride-on size), now we are talking. Sound decoders are plentifull in N and many are dropin (or very minimal work) and the locos certainly are cheaper !!!

ron222 wrote:

How is digitrax? Does it work as good as the NCE Power cab unit? Maybe I should work on a small N scale layout to get the feel for sound and motion. Do they have drop ins for the diesels like the Santa Fe phase 1? Sounds like you use Digitrax with TCS decoders and thats OK I Guess they are interchangeable.Would I also need a transformer other than the marklin transformer with the Digitrax or NCE Power Cab? Can I still use the Marklin switch tracks but not the Marklin loco?

Ron

Ron

I do not know what model of digitrax unit was hooked up to the Marklin AC power source and I virtually nothing about Digitrax other than they make decoders, control cabs and accessories to set up a DCC system. NCE is another company doing the same thing. I prefer the NCE product so I use a Power Cab. TCS is a decoder manufacturer and I happen to like their decoders in preference to those of Digitrax and NCE. I have installed decoders from Digitrax and Uhlenbruck NCE but I like TCS best.

To find out what decoders are available for a given engine we need to know the manufacturer such as Athearn, Kato, Atlas etc. Then we need to know the engine type such as GP9 SD40 etc. In some cases we also need to know when the engine was made as some manufacturers change and improve their engines between runs and with the advent of DCC many have created engines that are plug and play. Plug and Play means there is a decoder that will plug into a socket already installed on the light board in the engine while others require you to swap out the existing light board and for a new board which controls the lights and has the decoder onboard for your engine. Still others have solder pads on the light board for connecting a decoder after removing the jumpers installed for DC operation.

I know nothing about Marklin track and switches as it relates to DCC. But, from what I have heard using Marklin track and switches should not be problem if they are in good working order.

cheerz Garth

WOW! You guys are good with sharing your info. It sounds like the NCE power cab is very popular and can use any of the modules available. It also sounds like many like the TCS modules. I found my local hobby shop has Digitrax in stock so I'm afraid if I go there I'll buy that without seeing the NCE power cab. I guess the Digitrax can use all the modules also. I found that my Marklin 81466 set runs 10 vdc to the track and not ac as some said Marklin does for the locos. I guess this means my loco could be converted to DCC with some heavy work without converting the ac motor they said it had to dc. Its best for me to pick which unit to buy. Does the NCE POWER CAB have a track power supply with it or do you need a separate transformer? Trying N with this is a possibility. Thanks Ron

ron222 wrote:

WOW! You guys are good with sharing your info. It sounds like the NCE power cab is very popular and can use any of the modules available. It also sounds like many like the TCS modules. I found my local hobby shop has Digitrax in stock so I'm afraid if I go there I'll buy that without seeing the NCE power cab. I guess the Digitrax can use all the modules also. I found that my Marklin 81466 set runs 10 vdc to the track and not ac as some said Marklin does for the locos. I guess this means my loco could be converted to DCC with some heavy work without converting the ac motor they said it had to dc. Its best for me to pick which unit to buy. Does the NCE POWER CAB have a track power supply with it or do you need a separate transformer? Trying N with this is a possibility. Thanks Ron

There is some Marklin that is AC in the larger scales so people familiar with Marklin in HO and larger may not be aware Marklin is DC in Z and 10vdc at that. SO whoever you were talking to about Marklin did not know you were talking about Z or does not know about Marklin Z.

Many of us in Z purchase from other than our Local Hobby Shop basically because many of them do not support Z. If your local shop has no Z then they are not a good source of DCC of any kind as they will sell you far more than you need because their focus is on the larger scales.

The NCE power Cab comes complete with power supply in the form of a wall transformer. It retails for just under 200.00 but you can find it on line easily for under 160.00 plus shipping. The wall transformer type power supply, supplies power to the Power Cab and the Power Cab supplies the track voltage and control signal to the engines.

cheerz Garth

If you have sound decoders in two or more engines will all be able to make sound while going around the track at the same time. Thanks Ron